Paranoia, or reasonable explanation?

FunkyMonkey

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Love the "thousands of rounds of deadly hollow-point bullets" quote (italics are mine). As if there were any other kind. And from a supposedly conservative news outlet at that.

Doesn't exite me much. My friend works on a NOAA boat - they are armed. I think many Fed agencies have in house LEO to train. Unless they are expected a riot of retiring fishermen.......
 

John Canuck

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Almost every federal agency, bureau, department, committee, club, etc. has a LEO branch. These purchases amount to 600 or so rounds per federal agent (or so I heard on the radio today). Just a good day at the range if you ask me.

Now, it absolutely is a sign that the federal government is FAR TOO big.
 

fordnut

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You may recently have seen some in the Internet rumor mill feverishly repeating the obvious truth above, in an effort to stir up fear about recent acquisitions of ammunition by the Department of Homeland Security and a number of smaller agencies. The mildest writers have questioned why seemingly mundane agencies would need ammunition at all; more incendiary authors suggest that these government agencies are preparing for a war with the American people.

Much of the concern stems from a lack of understanding of the law enforcement functions carried about by officers in small federal agencies. These agents have the power to make arrests and execute warrants, just like their better-known counterparts at agencies like the FBI.

For instance, the Social Security Administration solicited offers for 174,000 rounds of pistol ammunition. But the agency has 295 special agents who combat Social Security fraud that costs tax payers billions each year, so the order works out to roughly 590 rounds of ammunition per agent for training, mandatory quarterly qualification shooting and duty use. More than a few NRA members would use that much ammunition in a weekend shooting class or plinking session.

Another recent rumor questioned a request for 46,000 rounds of.40-caliber ammo by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. NOAA inadvertently fueled that speculation through a clerical error that suggested the ammunition was destined for the National Weather Service. NOAA later clarified that the ammunition was actually for the little known Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement, which enforces laws against illegal fishing and marine life importation. The ammunition is for 63 personnel, amounting to about 730 rounds per officer.

The most widespread of the recent rumors involves a Department of Homeland Security contract for a maximum of 450 million rounds of .40-caliber jacketed hollow-points, to be supplied over the next five years.

After receiving numerous questions from his constituents regarding the contract, pro-Second Amendment U.S. Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.) and his staff set out in search of the truth. In a press release, Rep. Westmoreland's office explains:

If you take the number of agencies that will be using this ammunition ? CBP, Citizenship and Immigration Services, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), ICE, the U.S. Secret Service, Transportation Security Administration, the DHS police force, and all the guards that protect the various buildings these agencies are housed in, and spread that out over 5 years, you start to see that 450 million rounds really isn't that large of an order. Especially considering it is used for training purposes like firing range and live fire exercises, on-the-job use (though that is very limited), and to shore up their supplies. In fact, there are 65,000 ? 70,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS who would be covered under this ? ammunition contract. If DHS were to purchase all 450 million rounds over 5 years, then that would equate to only about 1,384 rounds of ammo per year per law enforcement [officer] ? assuming the lower estimate of only 65,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS. Considering those agents go through training exercises several times per year, that is not a lot of ammunition.

Perhaps most strangely, some have cited the purchase of hollow-point ammunition as evidence of the federal government's evil motives. Hollow-points are the defensive ammunition of choice for federal, state and local law enforcement officers across the country, just as they are for private citizens. These attacks are eerily similar to statements made by gun prohibitionists, who spent the much of the '70s, '80s and '90s complaining about "dum dum" bullets. (In fact, the Violence Policy Center's website still exhibits a publication lamenting that federal ammunition law "has no effect on today's generation of high-tech hollow-point ammunition.") The attacks also ignore the fact that federal agents, unlike average taxpayers on more limited budgets, normally train and qualify with their duty ammunition.

This is from Grassroots Webpage...

Sorry it is so long.

Steve
 

Parhams0508

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Jun 18, 2012
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Upstate SC
The whole "dangerous hollow point" thing is so stinking annoying. It's fear mongering, plain and simple.

What would you (liberal, hippie tree-hugger, pacifist, uninformed ignaramous, etc.) want, a bullet unable to expand quickly enough to rip through a criminal and possibly injure a bystander, or a bullet that is better designed to do what bullets are designed to do: to stop a threat?

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but seriously, this is ludicrous.
 

Tigerstripe

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i think they lie. spartanburg cops arent, that i know of, supplied a 1000 rds a year. ive heard tales of some that cant qualify, require special training, but its really just put off because they cant shoot. NOT ALL OF THEM. some.

so the soc sec com needs and uses more ammo than a "beat" cop? no, i dont see all these administrators going to the range and who spends the extra for HP, when there are complaints about people not getting raises and shortfalls on every project going?
 

C_Carson

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Nov 18, 2010
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Hmm, the way I see it...

When people are scared the government is storing ammo, they all run out and stock pile for themselves (which is good!) but it drives up the price of ammo. When people have to choose between eating, paying for shelter, or ammo, and prices are high and money tight, which do you think the majority of people will be forced to choose?

In effect, it makes it so that most ordinary working persons can't afford to purchase ammo to stockpile against large scale potential threats. Which in turn also leads to people feeling they are not prepared to defend themselves, so they turn to the big G and put their dependence on the promise of protection.

I also sincerely doubt that big G is capable of telling the truth, so when they say ammo is for yearly qualifications, I have little reason to believe it.
 

John Canuck

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Aug 3, 2011
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Are these PO's yearly purchase orders, or is this just a re-supply for the next few years? IE. do the fish police buy half a million rounds a year, or every ten years?
 

fiundagner

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Jul 21, 2011
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a certain number of rounds per person for qualification. this generally amounted to about 30 rounds for zero (3-6 rounds was the normal required, but i do know of at least one person who use 90 or so) and 180 or so for qualifications (3 runs through the qual course). Most people in my unit only used about 66 of the allotted 210 rounds per person. But each and every time that was the amount pulled per person for qualifications. The extra was always shot up (anyone who has ever been in the military and had to deal with it can tell you that turning in unused ammo, if they even let you, is a huge amount of paperwork and hassle. It?s easier to waste the ammo (or let it walk off the range unnoticed if it is small arms ammo) than turn it in. And it?s all use it or lose it for budgeting. Even if they only need 50 rounds for yearly quals, they probably have set amounts set aside for people to use. If they don?t use it it gets put in a cabinet somewhere till it?s needed. Which is how come agencies change offices and find thousands of rounds in storage they had forgotten about
 

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