Dog Attack!

[dennishoddy]

Everyone was playing cards late afternoon, but I'm too close to Eagle Nest Lake NM to not go throw some lures for the evening.
Took an ultralight rod and reel with no stringer meaning to catch and release anything caught.
Walked about 1/2 mile around the lake on the beach as the water is low leaving a nice place to walk, catching nothing but moss in the shallow waters.
Still not a failure as it was 70 degrees with the sun behind the mountains. Great evening to walk among nature.
Walking down, there was nobody anywhere. On the way back saw two people and their dog about 100 yards away. The dog spotted me immediately and charged at a dead run. I kept talking to it as it got closer thinking it was curious, but no, it was fangs out and lips curled. It wanted a piece of my hide.
The approximately 60lb dog of some mixed breed kept circling me at about six feet making false charges while barking and growling. The owners casually walked my way while we kept making circles, kind of keeping it at bay at around 6' with my fishing rod.
As she got closer, the dog got closer. I told her that if that dog moved another foot in my direction, it was a dead dog and I had my hand on my .380 in the pocket, never pulling it out.
She threw a tennis ball about 5' into the water and the dog went after it. I moved along, but as soon as I moved, the dog came after me again and the dance in circles started again.
I knew that if I turned my back on the dog it was over and he would be on me.
The husband meanwhile was making his way in no hurry. Now my voice level went from moderate to loud forceful looking at the husband saying get this fawking dog under control or I'm going to kill it right here and right now, so his pace picked up and they still couldn't get the dog to quit circling me as it evaded their attempts to grab its collar.
Finally the wife snagged the collar and the husband grabbed it too, and I walked away backwards down the beach for 50 or so yards hand still in the pocket on the gun before turning around to walk normally, but looking back constantly.
As I walked by their lawn chairs on the "beach", there was no leash in sight.
Getting to the parking lot, there was a couple heading out for a hike as well as a family with young children heading to that area. I warned them and then called the NM Sheriff's office as well as Fish and Game to let them know there was a vicious dog on the beach, giving them my name and location.
If they went or didn't, I don't know, but it was reported.
I love dogs like no-other, having one since I was 4 years old and adopting camp dogs when overseas in the military, but I have no mercy on a vicious dog.
Got back to camp and they could see I was amped up. One of the girls we camp with is a retired RN, so she jokingly said I need to take your blood pressure.
It was Ok at 130, but the adrenalin had my heart beat up to 120 bps.
Medicine prescribed was a double shot of Makers Mark that worked.

 

[Mike A]

Some people don't even have the sense to control themselves!

Dogs need a strong owner, If not get a freaking CA!

 

[boatdoc]

I HATE irresponsible dog owners. not sure where they get off leaving dogs loose and out of their control(irresponsibility at its worst!!!)
bet their tune would have changed if you had to kill that aggressive animal.

faced this too many times( unarmed--if you shoot a gun in public in my town(CT) YOU get to go to jail. they are not tolerant of guns and their proper use here in CT at all.

and yet you were faced with life or limb damaging threats. no different than a human threat.

good dog owners keep their dogs leashed when in public

glad that you were not attacked

 

[HooDoo Man]

The dog would have needed an ER Vet. The owner a good Dentist.

 

[Old Bill]

Everyone was playing cards late afternoon, but I'm too close to Eagle Nest Lake NM to not go throw some lures for the evening.
Took an ultralight rod and reel with no stringer meaning to catch and release anything caught.
Walked about 1/2 mile around the lake on the beach as the water is low leaving a nice place to walk, catching nothing but moss in the shallow waters.
Still not a failure as it was 70 degrees with the sun behind the mountains. Great evening to walk among nature.
Walking down, there was nobody anywhere. On the way back saw two people and their dog about 100 yards away. The dog spotted me immediately and charged at a dead run. I kept talking to it as it got closer thinking it was curious, but no, it was fangs out and lips curled. It wanted a piece of my hide.
The approximately 60lb dog of some mixed breed kept circling me at about six feet making false charges while barking and growling. The owners casually walked my way while we kept making circles, kind of keeping it at bay at around 6' with my fishing rod.
As she got closer, the dog got closer. I told her that if that dog moved another foot in my direction, it was a dead dog and I had my hand on my .380 in the pocket, never pulling it out.
She threw a tennis ball about 5' into the water and the dog went after it. I moved along, but as soon as I moved, the dog came after me again and the dance in circles started again.
I knew that if I turned my back on the dog it was over and he would be on me.
The husband meanwhile was making his way in no hurry. Now my voice level went from moderate to loud forceful looking at the husband saying get this fawking dog under control or I'm going to kill it right here and right now, so his pace picked up and they still couldn't get the dog to quit circling me as it evaded their attempts to grab its collar.
Finally the wife snagged the collar and the husband grabbed it too, and I walked away backwards down the beach for 50 or so yards hand still in the pocket on the gun before turning around to walk normally, but looking back constantly.
As I walked by their lawn chairs on the "beach", there was no leash in sight.
Getting to the parking lot, there was a couple heading out for a hike as well as a family with young children heading to that area. I warned them and then called the NM Sheriff's office as well as Fish and Game to let them know there was a vicious dog on the beach, giving them my name and location.
If they went or didn't, I don't know, but it was reported.
I love dogs like no-other, having one since I was 4 years old and adopting camp dogs when overseas in the military, but I have no mercy on a vicious dog.
Got back to camp and they could see I was amped up. One of the girls we camp with is a retired RN, so she jokingly said I need to take your blood pressure.
It was Ok at 130, but the adrenalin had my heart beat up to 120 bps.
Medicine prescribed was a double shot of Makers Mark that worked.

That is one of those situations that can really get out of hand in so many ways.. You in one piece and no legal issues? .. That's a win ..(Smile) PBTJ

However just based upon what you outlined.. Let's do an AAR (After Action Review)

Keep in mind.. this is exactly the kind of Monday Morning Quarterbacking we are subject to if we use force so I am not criticizing you .. I am trying to learn from your experience.

Obviously there is not much we can do other than hide in the house to wind up from time to time in situations not of our choosing.

That said

I am never an advocate for yelling at anyone while armed...even engaging in contentious talk... My reasoning?

Officer speaking to witness...what happened? "I don't know I just heard a man yelling he was going to kill someone and then I hear/he shot.. " Not a good way to start the "After Journey"...

You faced 3 immediate threats.. and 2 more after . The dog the man and the women.. Believe me when the Police arrive it is quite likely the dog owners will tell the tale their dog died heroically saving them from the crazy man waving a gun.. (nice huh?) .. And then your local prosecutor who can and apparently has no problem with indicting a Ham Sandwich....

So we really want to limit our words.. Not holler about killing anything.. .. (I perfectly understand your response ..we are just not in Kansas anymore..)

The Dog may seriously injure you.. if you shoot to stop the dog the owners may attack you (oh and they may be armed legally or otherwise as well) .. It really is a bad situation..

Unfortunately I found myself in a somewhat similar situation .. no owners around.. The dog stopped about 8 inches from me it was not pleasant.. I now carry a dog repellant.. I have never had to use it.. But I wish they had it when I had my encounter.

We all have seen a number of armed citizens talk themselves into trouble.. There was a video of a loon in a Sam's club... arguing/threatening everyone.. One older fella right hand in his jacket pocket.. argued with the guy his hand never left that pocket. Pretty obvious what he had in his hand in that pocket to anyone paying attention.. But the verbal back an forth.. it would not work on his behalf.. .. If someone is being aggressive potential threat. Challenging threatening getting into a verbal confrontation/argument... just takes away tons of self defense argument....

If we control what we say and it seems best to say very little I think that works to our benefit."

Help" "Stop" "Get Back "You / Your (dogs) frightening me" "Please stop/ get your dog"


Officer speaking to witness...what happened? "I don't know I just heard a man yelling for help, stop ..Please Stop ... He said he was afraid and then boom....... and so goes the "After Journey"...


Here's the thing. What is presented as evidence if it get's to that.. What we say and how we say it really matters a lot.. Can define the incident.. at least think about it.

I really would like to hear your opinion on what I put forth above..

 

[HooDoo Man]

^^^^^^ Typical Lib response. The attack will stop if you just ask politely. Or the Police will be there soon. What crap.

 

[dennishoddy]

That is one of those situations that can really get out of hand in so many ways.. You in one piece and no legal issues? .. That's a win ..(Smile) PBTJ

However just based upon what you outlined.. Let's do an AAR (After Action Review)

Keep in mind.. this is exactly the kind of Monday Morning Quarterbacking we are subject to if we use force so I am not criticizing you .. I am trying to learn from your experience.

Obviously there is not much we can do other than hide in the house to wind up from time to time in situations not of our choosing.

That said

I am never an advocate for yelling at anyone while armed...even engaging in contentious talk... My reasoning?

Officer speaking to witness...what happened? "I don't know I just heard a man yelling he was going to kill someone and then I hear/he shot.. " Not a good way to start the "After Journey"...

You faced 3 immediate threats.. and 2 more after . The dog the man and the women.. Believe me when the Police arrive it is quite likely the dog owners will tell the tale their dog died heroically saving them from the crazy man waving a gun.. (nice huh?) .. And then your local prosecutor who can and apparently has no problem with indicting a Ham Sandwich....

So we really want to limit our words.. Not holler about killing anything.. .. (I perfectly understand your response ..we are just not in Kansas anymore..)

The Dog may seriously injure you.. if you shoot to stop the dog the owners may attack you (oh and they may be armed legally or otherwise as well) .. It really is a bad situation..

Unfortunately I found myself in a somewhat similar situation .. no owners around.. The dog stopped about 8 inches from me it was not pleasant.. I now carry a dog repellant.. I have never had to use it.. But I wish they had it when I had my encounter.

We all have seen a number of armed citizens talk themselves into trouble.. There was a video of a loon in a Sam's club... arguing/threatening everyone.. One older fella right hand in his jacket pocket.. argued with the guy his hand never left that pocket. Pretty obvious what he had in his hand in that pocket to anyone paying attention.. But the verbal back an forth.. it would not work on his behalf.. .. If someone is being aggressive potential threat. Challenging threatening getting into a verbal confrontation/argument... just takes away tons of self defense argument....

If we control what we say and it seems best to say very little I think that works to our benefit."

Help" "Stop" "Get Back "You / Your (dogs) frightening me" "Please stop/ get your dog"


Officer speaking to witness...what happened? "I don't know I just heard a man yelling for help, stop ..Please Stop ... He said he was afraid and then boom....... and so goes the "After Journey"...


Here's the thing. What is presented as evidence if it get's to that.. What we say and how we say it really matters a lot.. Can define the incident.. at least think about it.

I really would like to hear your opinion on what I put forth above..

I'll answer your comments.
The situation with the dog was getting worse by the second with the owners in no hurry to control their dog.
The dog was big enough to cause serious harm if not worse.
The owners were just enjoying a leisurely walk down the beach from 100 yards away with the wife 50 yards in the lead.
My comments about harm coming to their dog was designed to peak their interest in the situation and have them move to control their dog in a more expedient manner because they didn't seem too concerned about my safety.
In my mind in that situation with the dog becoming more aggressive by the second, urging them on with words was preferable to killing the dog in front of them in an effort to de-escalate the situation.
There was no weapon being waved about wildly. The weapon was concealed in a pocket with my hand on it, never being brandished.
Had the need arisen to produce that weapon, there would have been an immediate discharge.
I'll take my chances with the DA and a jury over being mauled, permanently disfigured or killed by a dog.
I say all the above in retrospect.
At the immediate situation as it occurred, there is zero thought about legal issues, only survival.

 

[Old Bill]

You know I think there is a misunderstanding ..

Given your description of the circumstances I am not concerned about the dog the dog owners.. the PC World View.. ..

Is there anyone here who has not done what objectively was the right thing, a reasonable thing and had others twist it about against them?

Consider this.. a friend on a major swat team was an officer 20 years.. He found a guy in his garage, now he could have arrested him.. But that is a pain in the neck it disrupts your day off.. Believe me... what is worse... he would have had to identify himself as an Officer thereby providing a criminal and therefor criminals' with his home and family's address . So quite reasonably he told the bad guy to get out, take off.. The guy ran off and called 911 saying as he was walking down the road he was threatened by a man with a gun who then walked back in his house at such and such address.. The bad guy was mad and thought he could "Get Back" at the homeowner.. Who in that case worked for the responding agency. Bad guy turned out to have a record for burglary (big surprise). Unless we can guarantee that same situation we cannot count on the reasonable outcome of events.. All we can do is keep in mind all the potential pitfalls of conflict and avoid it if possible. Controlling what we say and how say it.. Keeping in mind the potentially adversarial circumstances, a cautious approach is simply prudent.. We see ridiculous consequences of reasonable conduct all the time.. William Penny , Harold Fish.. the list is long and gets longer everyday...


"Cult of the Dummy Cord"